Taboo's Junk Trunk: A Storage Dump for Taboo's Random Literary and Cultural Blatherments
Label Your Favorite Media Majesty
Published on November 21, 2004 By TaBooTenente In Politics
When it comes to stating our political beliefs these days, we play loosely and aggressively with our declarations. We're the Phil Helmuths and Scotty Nyugens rather than the Howard Lederers and the Johnie Chans of ideologies.



This last round, we Democrats have stolen a favorite tactic of the ghost of Republican Past: the label tactic. Painting GW Bush as anything from cokehead frat boy to a certain fascist regime dictator seemed like a healthy pastime; moreover, it served to whip our disinterested party members into standing in late night poll lines while diehards brought in saucy pizzas and fizzy beverages for sustennance. Unfortunately for us, we also whipped undecideds, moderates, and disaffiliated Republicans into straightening their ties and making their own stand at the polls, into flipping the bird into the face of the unattractive arrogance we have developed.

Political spinning and strategery aside, not only does the labeling seem anti-productive, but seems largely inaccurate to me. Looking for a new, less shrill voice in an earlier article, I believed Draginol, T.B., Dr. Miller (and other conservatives) and I(and other liberlas) were closing in on a consensus as to where the polar divide began, and how certain liberals could approach the problem.

Then this happened:

TaBooTenente states: "One other thing: while I'm willing to accept the left-loonies on my own bill, I'm finding that conservatives tend to disassociate themselves with the right-wing extremists. It creates an unfair balance. Michael Moore offends you (me too, as I've said) into a conservative stance, but I'm supposed to view David Duke as an abnormality?"

T.B. responds (in reference to when he began to feel morally attacked by liberals: I felt like my senses were insulted, my beliefs challenged and a good man attacked by a group of fringe left wackos. I don't know that any particular point was a trigger, more like a continuum that served to continuously push me to further support the Administration (from being lukewarm at best). and "Absolutley!! David Duke was not legitimized by the party whereas MM was, at least what I saw, embraced." (which was a good point, by the way)

TaBooTenente: "David Duke may not be recognized by the Republican Party, but he represents a human being who has taken rightist ideology further into the continuum." and "as much as Fahreinheit 9/11 frustrated me, as did much of MM's antics as the election approached, I would never think of MM, Kerry, or Gore as the fringe left. Look, Kerry is about as middle-of-the-road as liberals get, and Gore's not far off that stride, either...or why do you think Nader keeps surfacing? Ralph Nader also is not ultra-fringe like many think; however, he's much further down the revolutionary ideology than most liberals are comfortable with."

Then Draginol enters with: "I'm sorry but Michael Moore absolutely IS a fringe left wing kook. And until the Democrats distance themselves from people like that they'll keep losing elections.

It is telling that when you look to the right for its kooks you really have to dig. David Duke? Man, he's been a fossil for 10+ years. Pat Robertson has been a nobody for 14 years. The kooky right wingers these days are people like Ann Coulter who is just an author and about as right wing as Al Franken is left wing. There is no Michael Moore of teh right. There's no Sean Penn of the right. There's no nasty, hatefilled violent protesters on teh right. To find that you have to go way back to the KKK (an organization founded by Democrats btw).
"

TaBooTenente: "As far as ideologies go, MM is not a fringe-leftist. His politics are not ultra-left. They ARE liberal, certainly, and they are not moderate. But there is a large gap between MM politics, and revolutionary politics."

And then, in a last passionate closing argument, Draginol reiterates: "And I am saying that no, MM IS a fringe-leftists. His politics ARE ultra-left. I'm really surprised you think he's a mainstream liberal. Have you read any of his books? The only thing that keeps him from being completely out there is that he is (obviously) a capitalist.

Draginol makes an interesting point, but I reviewed my previous comments and realized I had never labeled Michael Moore as a "mainstream liberal". Hmm.

So, if We the People are loving us some labels, maybe it's time to revisit what we mean when we throw around affectionate cuddle-bunny nicknames like "Redneck Hickville Rube" or "Arrogant Traitorous Pinko Nutjob". More specifically, we should understand what we mean when we use terms like "Ultra-Right" or "Fringe Left" or even "Moderate".

I propose this as a generic, basic, linear ideology model:

[--(1)REVOLUTIONARISM--(2)COMMUNISM--(3)SOCIALISM--(4)LIBERALISM--(5)MODERN MAINSTREAM LIBERALISM--(6)L-BALANCED-R--(7)MODERATE--(8)CONSERVATIVE--(9)RIGHT-WING/ MINIMALIST GOVERNMENT--(10)FASCISM--(11)REACTIONARISM--]

Now: where would you classify the "fringe left"? Where would you place the following people: T. Kennedy, Gore, Kerry, MM, GWBush, McCain, A. Coultier, and any others you can think of? Why? Maybe this is the place to start. Then we can get back to some serious name-calling.


TBT
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Comments (Page 2)
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on Nov 22, 2004
Even communism was created with the individual as "centre of his/her destiny", although not as the subjugated and subsumed individual of capitalism, but an individual free to fulfil their full creative potential


1st: Yes, we agree we are talking about the ideal rather than historical examples.

2nd: Are you sure about this statement? It seems to me that Marxism (not Lenin- or Stalin- ism) suggests that each person will have a natural place, each to his/her own abilities, and then the whole evolves into a contained community, where contamination or backward thought would be impossible--and therefore this final stage of history is self-described, because no new individual could put themselves forward, for good or evil.
on Nov 22, 2004
Damn good point and a subtle one too.

I think that catoblasts concept of a spherical model would come in handy here. Anarchism being the result of either extreme of the spectrum going to far, even though i think this speculation might give too little credit to the theoretical work that has been invested in anarchism as a philosophy.
on Nov 22, 2004
2nd: Are you sure about this statement? It seems to me that Marxism (not Lenin- or Stalin- ism) suggests that each person will have a natural place, each to his/her own abilities, and then the whole evolves into a contained community, where contamination or backward thought would be impossible--and therefore this final stage of history is self-described, because no new individual could put themselves forward, for good or evil.


You could argue that Marxism prime goal is to demolish the friction that exists between the individual and society. Alienation becomes a very important concept when you take this into account. One of Marxism's central critiques is the capitalist disregard for the individual even as it professes to hold the individual aloft as the ultimate god. Capitalism has an unequitable distribution of this "individualism, where the individualism of one is guaranteed by the submission and exploitation of the many. One of the outcomes of Marxist dialectics is the final taking into account of all individuals., and what else would we call this other than the community. In doing this however, the system must insure that the freedom of each individual does not infringe on the freedom of any other and in this way "no new individual could put themselves forward, for good or evil".
on Nov 22, 2004
Absolutely, and in the end, most critics of Marxism as a unified ideology band together here, and say "impossible" or make witty remarks the way W. Churchill did. Marx was certainly right when described the imbalance capitalism creates, and the grouping capitalism creates. The Poles, as Orwell calls them, the ineffectual many, cannot reasonably assert themselves as individuals in a capitalist way--though Orwell points out that only the Proles are truly free! Damn, people are so much smarter than I am, it makes me sick.

Of course the so-called Marxist fault: the reasoning that if a Marxist society required that:

the freedom of each individual does not infringe on the freedom of any other and in this way "no new individual could put themselves forward, for good or evil".


then it must be possible. There's a huge blank space in the painting.

By the way: everytime I put some time into trying to search out some honest, rational anarchist literature, I run into supremacy propaganda. Have you got any suggestions?

TBT

on Nov 22, 2004
By the way: everytime I put some time into trying to search out some honest, rational anarchist literature, I run into supremacy propaganda. Have you got any suggestions?


It's a problem, isn't it. I would suggest going back to the basics - Bakunin to understand Anarchism as a political project and Max Stirner for philosophical grounding.

Damn, people are so much smarter than I am, it makes me sick.


Ah! Now we're talking about something I know a lot about
on Nov 22, 2004
Oh. You can find the writings of both of www.marxist.org. I'm sure you already know of it, but if you don't this is a brilliant resource.

You can just click on the link below.

Link

on Nov 22, 2004
Very nice. I did know about it, actually, but I'm re-tooling a website at the moment, and trying to rebuild our external links section. That one is a gem. Any other ideas?
on Nov 22, 2004
By the way: everytime I put some time into trying to search out some honest, rational anarchist literature, I run into supremacy propaganda. Have you got any suggestions?


If you what a good example of a modern Anarchist, read the book "The Fight Club". The movie is good, but it don't hold up to the book. I also think the movie had a woosie ending too.

A true anarchist would not even want anything to do with communist. This is way:

anarchist: One who believes in, advocates, or engages in anarchism.

anarchism: 1. The theory that all types of government are oppressive and undesirable and should be abolished. 2. Rejection of all forms of coercive control and authority.

Governments in the past has labeled anarchist groups as Marxist, communist or nationalist, this is a misconception. After an anarchist attack governments love to point a finger and associate the two groups so they can try and take down communist/nationalist groups too at the same time. Many historical anarchist groups have been mislabeled and we today still make that mistake. A bomb thrower marching in a communist parade are usually not communist, they are just wanting to cause the collapse of civil law (no matter what type it is).

The reason why I placed them on the right and not the left is simple. The right wants as little governmental control as possible. Michael Savage is allot more (by far) on the right then say Ashcroft (who wants government control).

The ear mark of the left is complete control, government know best type of thing. They are the natural enemy of anarchist. That's why anarchist pick them as targets of opportunity.

That's My Two Cents
on Nov 22, 2004
I would add that a theocracy can and most often is fascist in the sense that they are systems of extreme right-wing dictatorial governments. If you can't negotiate your positions (which most political positions based on religion cannot be as they are deemed preordained and infallable) then they are indeed fascist and authoritative in nature. They seek to impose their unwavering positions on society as a whole and give no consideration to other's positions at all. That is why they inevitably become fascist because their beliefs must be imposed (because they can't get an overall concensus) which requires an extreme consolidation of political power.
on Nov 22, 2004
For anyone who is tired of the "left" and "right" scale...here is a web site that offeres more: http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/analysis2.html

They argue that politics is more than "left" and "right" and should include verticle poles as well. For example: Collective Communism is at the extreme polar left while Neo-liberalism is at the extreme right. Fascism is at the polar north while anarchism is at the polar south. These groupings are not interchangable. It allows for many shades of grey which left-right paradigms do not. That is why most people do not feel they neatly fit into either category.
on Nov 22, 2004
The reason why I placed them on the right and not the left is simple. The right wants as little governmental control as possible


Interesting, because facism is on the extreme right and yet it is in practice total and absolute control exerted by government and the armed wing of the government - the military. More than anything both the far left and the far right are determined be the extent that everything is politicised. The further to the centre the stronger the instinct for institutional independence, including that of the military. Once again, a strong argument to have a circular, rather than linear model.

For anyone who is tired of the "left" and "right" scale...


Post-structuralist political theory (especially Michel Foucault's) is extremely helpful when you want to extend your understanding beyond the left-right model.

on Nov 22, 2004
notsohighlyevolved: "Post-structuralist political theory (especially Michel Foucault's) is extremely helpful when you want to extend your understanding beyond the left-right model."

Yes, I am famiar with Foucault. I studied his political philosophy during undergrad as well as many others. Nice to point him out to others who may not have heard of him, though.
on Nov 22, 2004
Governments in the past has labeled anarchist groups as Marxist, communist or nationalist, this is a misconception. After an anarchist attack governments love to point a finger and associate the two groups so they can try and take down communist/nationalist groups too at the same time.


Excellent point, Lee.

Of course I've seen the movie, but you recommend "Fight Club" as good anarchist reading?

One last thing, as I mentioned earlier: I am re-tooling another website. The slant is more literary than political, though the overarching theme is culture. Honestly, the other administrators are more gung-ho about bringing politics into the fold; even though I love sortign through ideology theory and political debate. I worry a bit about associating literature to ideology. I love certain Utopian novels, Hermanne Hesse works...but I'm not sure that these works dig up, as Faulkner would say, "the ultimate struggle of the human heart". They serve to work though the struggle of the mind, but not necessarily the terrible, joyous pain of looking though a dirty window.

Long way around, huh? I'd be interested in pitching your slant on anarchy. If you have any interest in participating let me know. Basically the model we're using is two-part: the first is our one-way conduit for providing news, editorials, and thematic material; the second is submission-based. I just read these responses and the light went on in my head; I haven't suggested this yet to anyone. But there are a lot of good takes here that might make an excellent center for an ideological, politcal format, set on a bias of different definitions.

All right, I'm just blathering, now. Let me know what you think. Thanks again.

TBT


And believe me: by the time our site is re-tooled, there will be an in-depth section on all the literary movers, from Foucault (affected the literature world like an earthquake), Derrida, and the shakers, like Barthelme.
on Nov 22, 2004
It all sounds very interesting TBT. You should definitely let us know when it's up and running.
on Nov 22, 2004
Of course I've seen the movie, but you recommend "Fight Club" as good anarchist reading?


It has been a few years since I read it, but at the time I was not interested in the anarchist movements of the past. While in the Book they do use a communal system of leadership, their goals are the same, the destruction of Governmental authority. Some would even think "The Three Monkeys" movie would also fall into the anarchist ideas too. But I have not read that book yet. I do think I just added it to my list of future reads.

To answer your question, Yes, I think it would be a good anarchist read.

Post-structuralist political theory (especially Michel Foucault's) is extremely helpful when you want to extend your understanding beyond the left-right model.


I'll add this to my reading list too.

Thanks
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